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Kaveh
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@Caleb,

Let me first thank you for helping us. Now I am not saying moderators are the problem and the community is not. I think my first paragraph clearly states that there are problems in the community. What I am saying is that particular moderator behaviors are also problematic and unhelpful and at times counter-productive for resolving those issues. There are problems on both sides. I feel that you and some others are acting as apologist for moderators even when their actions are not justified because the site has other problems that we are dealing with and should focus.

I disagree with this attitude. These are part of the reason the issues we have with the community keep resurfacing: the issues that are not being resolved but are pushed away in the "it is so because I say so" fashion resurface. The result is we don't build a real community that maintains those policies, and in turn it leads to moderators doing more than they need to. The site is over 2 years old, do you feel we have built a community? Let's be modest and say 5 high rep users who actively help in moderation? Would you say there have not been even 5 high rep active users with good intentions?

Re. 1: Some moderators are not as active in moderation as others. That is part of the reason goldPseudo is criticized, he is covering for others. You mentioned some of their activities, that is good, I am not dismissing that. But there are other parts that they do not lead by example, e.g. closing/deleting. The typical attitude I see is "discard what is deemed unsuitable", not "edit/improve to make suitable". ps: I myself try to to help (though I spend a relatively limited amount of time on this site), and I defend and explain mod actions when I think they are right.

Re. 2: I agree, and I keep repeating this: the moderators are doing a lot of good job, I am not dismissing that. Most of the advice in my post also applies to other high rep users including myself (I try to edit whenever I can but as I wrote I spend limited time on this site and the number of my edits are proportional to that). The moderation should be mainly by community. Up to here I don't have a disagreement with you. But I think that the moderation attitude is partly (though not mainly) responsible for this lack of community participation in moderation.

Re. 3: I don't think I ever said they shouldn't act unilaterally. What I am saying is different: avoid conflict of interests, if you are personally involved in a dispute and dealing with it is not urgent then let another moderator handle it. I think this is just common sense. I can give specific examples for each of my points, and have done so in other places on meta, through flags, etc. but I think it will just divert this discussion to particulars.

Re. 4: I didn't have those quantifiers in my point. Major moderator actions should be understandable for others, this is part of pure SE advice. Sometimes it is clear what was the reason to take an action, sometimes it is not. When it is not it should be adequately explained. As I said I myself often have trouble on this site understanding why posts are closed or deleted. Leaving a short comment linking to the applicable policy would solve it and there is a superscript that makes posting common ones just two clicks. It is not something that would overwhelm moderators. On the other hand, I think those educational comments will have considerable effect on reducing the work load in the long run.

Re. 6: Again I have not said they should go against SE norms or guidelines to please community. What I have said is again in SE moderation theory: the community moderators represent the community, they are not SE employees. Why am I emphasizing this? Because I think they sometimes forget this. That doesn't mean they should do whatever community pleases, but they should keep it in their mind, it has an effect on how they deal with other users.

Re. 7,5: I mentioned other sites to just to show this is not the norm on metas. I don't think there is a difference on this issue between technical and nontechnical sites. Most deleted stuff I have seen on this meta didn't really need deletion, they are not even completely off-topic to the discussions but often related side-issues. Are you going to tell me they are more off-topic than unicorn stuff on MSO or MSE? Now it is more than that. Often not only the deletion doesn't help, but it is also counter-productive. It represent the same "it is so because I said so" attitude. It creates tension and disgruntled users who feel the moderators are abusing their power and not sensitive/respectful towards them. And the fact that people keep repeating the same issues can be a sign that it doesn't resolve the issue and it is not working.

Btw, it would more appropriate if you don't put those statements in quotations. Considering the number of times that you misquote me in your answer (in a way that distorts my intentions) I think you should reread my post more carefully when you have time. The intention is not scapegoating the moderators as I said, they are doing a lot of good job, I am not dismissing that, but there are moderator behaviors that harm community building that need to be addressed not white-washed because we have other problems.

Kaveh
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