27

I've noticed a trend among some people that they attack other people's ideologies. That is to say, they go through answers that have, say, hadith, and say things like:

  • All hadith are not authentic
  • This (well known scholar of hadith) is not reliable
  • The Shi'a Twelver imams are not reliable
  • etc.

This is, quite honestly, ridiculous and not constructive. If you personally don't believe in hadith, fine. State that in your answers, so we know where you're coming from.

But do not troll other people's questions and answers and attack hadith. This is absolutely unacceptable. Islam.SE is about "Islam," not "your version of Islam."

This applies to many things. Not just hadith (sunnis), but also the concept of 12 infallible imams (shi'a), belief in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (qadiyanis), or whatever specifics apply to one group but not other.

I will be patrolling and flagging comments as off-topic and not-constructive. You have been warned. More sectarianism and arguing about peoples bases in comments will only destroy the site.

  • +1 totally agree! – RobinHood Jul 6 '12 at 6:58
11

I completely agree.

My advice to users is: if you see these nonconstructive comments, or people trolling questions and answers saying that the hadith (or twelve imams or anything) are not true, flag it.

To the people who are making these comments: please stop. It is not helping anybody by leaving these comments.

  • 1
    please define nonconstructive. is nonconstructive anything not in your sect? – Battle of Karbala Jun 28 '12 at 22:06
  • @Ahmadi No, nonconstructive meaning not benefiting the site in any way. – Dynamic Jun 28 '12 at 22:42
  • OK. so please define benefit of site. – Battle of Karbala Jun 28 '12 at 23:10
  • @Ahmadi Benefit of the site: Making sure that everybody has an enjoyable time, while still learning and allowing others learn. – Dynamic Jun 28 '12 at 23:23
  • 3
    according to this define knowing different sects of Islam is still beneficial and constructive. because Islam without any sect does not exist in real world. and real Islam is finally one of 73 sect prophet said. so for knowing Islam first one should know sects of Islam. – Battle of Karbala Jun 29 '12 at 1:09
  • 4
    @Ahmadi your comments here are an example of non-constructive and non-beneficial. I have flagged them. – ashes999 Jun 29 '12 at 2:52
  • @ashes999 here is not for Islam. here is for how to Islam.SE work. It seems non-constructive and non-beneficial depends on sect of user. – Battle of Karbala Jun 29 '12 at 6:32
9

+1 and completely agree. I have also noticed that some use down votes to show their disapproval (for a valid answer) if they cannot leave a flaming comment. But I guess nothing can be done about that.

  • There are tools to deal with users with abusing voting behavior. Moderators can view votes cast by users if a user is abusing them by systematically down-voting some user's posts it will show up there and in extreme cases the user can be warned about the behavior or even banned. – Kaveh Jun 28 '12 at 19:49
  • 1
    all sects have the same right. no user can call his sect Islam and call other sects non Islam. any sect believe his sect is real Islam. – Battle of Karbala Jun 28 '12 at 22:07
  • 1
    Moderators can't view who upvoted and who downvoted , But in stack exchange serial downvotes will be reversed – Tachyons Jun 29 '12 at 2:58
15

I generally agree with this.

However I think a more balanced approach is allowing users to comment and ask the author of the answer to add that the view belongs to a particular school and clarify that it is not a view where there is a consensus among Muslim scholars and schools.

In short, the comments should be about the answer, they should not be an attack on the beliefs of other Muslims or the author of the answer.

  • +1 for the "state the school". That gives people no excuse to post some of the abrasive comments I've seen around here regarding various sects. – Manishearth Jul 2 '12 at 9:35
-3

I disagree and I do not see any problem in saying:

this Hadith is not authentic (which is different of Hadith are not authentic)
This (well known scholar of hadith) is not reliable
We should doubt that hadith are authentic

When it is said this is view of a sect there is no problem.

This is not personally. it is view of a sect and enough evidence are provided and this is always mentioned (this is view of this sect)

this is not attack. do you think proving a Hadith is not authentic is attack?

Dear friend also some concepts belong to one sect ( for example selecting caliph by people is for Sunni only)

Islam.SE is about "Islam," not "your version of Islam."

this is true for you also. not only shia.

when you oppose "our version of Islam" i fact you mean Islam.SE is about "your version of Islam."

why you think your version of Islam is Islam and other version of Islam is not Islam?! this is very ridiculous.

please understand all sects believe their version of Islam is Islam.

  • 1
    @Gigili posting on every answer and question that quotes a hadith that "all hadith are unacceptable" is absolutely trolling. If someone believes in hadith, it's not your place to attack that belief on every question and answer. – ashes999 Jun 29 '12 at 9:36
  • 1
    @ashes999 I agree you. posting on every answer and question that quotes a hadith that "all hadith are unacceptable" is absolutely trolling. I am sure I have never said all hadith are unacceptable. – Battle of Karbala Jun 29 '12 at 12:16
  • @Gigili this is exactly the mentality that causes the problem -- "even if had we surely would have a strong reason." A strong reason to push your opinion against others inappropriately when they're asking something different? A strong reason to promote your view as the only view? This is intolerance. – ashes999 Jun 29 '12 at 14:15
  • 2
    @ashes999 the strong reason can be Quran. – Battle of Karbala Jun 29 '12 at 15:29
4

SE is designed so that many people can express their answers to any given question - there's never "just one right answer", when there are different sects of Islam. So, it has to be acceptable to post an answer that is correct only from the Shi'a point of view, and also acceptable to post an answer that is correct only from the Sunni point of view. Then, the person who asked the question can choose which answer to take heed of. More importantly, future users of the site will see both answers side by side, and also choose for themselves. Why in the world would you register here, if not to enjoy the spirited debate that results from BOTH sides of any discussion being freely presented?

Promising to patrol and flag comments that present one point of view or another is itself unconstructive and of no benefit to the site.

That said, "Beneficial", to me, means that people can use Islam.SE to find unbiased answers to their questions about Islam.

  • 4
    I see that you missed the point. The point is not flagging for people who say "your answer has hadith and hadith is not a valid proof." The same thing applies to "your answer quotes the Twelver Imams and the Twelver Imams are unacceptable." Substitute with group-specific ideas accordingly. – ashes999 Jun 29 '12 at 9:33
  • 2
    @Dynamic Unneeded by whom? As someone who is not very familiar with Islam, I would find comments from BOTH sides of the fence helpful. Gigili has hit the nail on the head, when he/she says that both sides need to be freely presented. – user202 Jun 29 '12 at 11:31
  • 4
    @Dynamic: The point is who is the judge of that. – Gigili Jun 29 '12 at 11:34
  • 2
    @DavidWallace I don't believe either of you know exactly what this conversation is about. This is about comments saying that sources from either sect are unreliable. These are unneeded. – Dynamic Jun 29 '12 at 11:35
  • 1
    @Gigili Everybody. You can flag a comment that you think is off-topic. Then, if a mod agrees with you, the comment is gone. – Dynamic Jun 29 '12 at 11:37
  • 1
    @Dynamic: I'm perfectly aware of that, I've been a member of SE for about a year or more. I think you're unaware of the motivation behind this post. I have nothing further to say. – Gigili Jun 29 '12 at 11:38
  • 2
    @Gigili, what is being criticized here is leaving comments on a correct answers to express another view. This borders debating and is not constructive. If another school has a different answer then it should be posted as a new answer not a comment. If an answer is expressing the Sunni views correctly and also states that it is from that school then leaving a comment on the post stating that "the answer is not correct because Shia school thinks the hadith is not correct" is not a constructive behavior, the answer is not about Shia school and therefore the comment is irrelevant to the answer. – Kaveh Jun 29 '12 at 16:39
  • 2
    @Dynamic Thank you for your valiant attempt to read my mind. I'm sure you were sincere, if completely erroneous. As it happens, I know exactly what this conversation is about. If somebody posts an answer to any question on this site, that represents the views of just one sect, or quotes a source which is not recognised by all the sects of Islam (such as Aishah), then it's really important that somebody else indicates this. It could be as simple as saying "this answer is not representative of all of Islam", or "Sect X does not recognise this source as authoritative". ... (continued) – user202 Jun 29 '12 at 20:09
  • 2
    ... That is far more helpful and informative to the end users of this site, than suppressing or censoring such comments would be. As for ashes999's intention to flag or remove such information, well frankly, if this kind of myopic boorishness is considered acceptable, then this site might be better named Sunnis.only.SE, as it would cease to be useful to those of us who are not Sunnis, and to those of us who seek unbiassed information about Islam. – user202 Jun 29 '12 at 20:09
  • 1
    The intent of @ashes999 was not to flag or remove such information at all. Read his post carefully - it was only to ask for a certain standard of decency in drawing attention to bias in posts. So, say "Please add to the answer that this is a Sunni viewpoint" instead of "Abu Huraira is a ****". I know for a fact that ashes999 has indicated in several of his answers the viewpoint he is coming from. – Ansari Jul 1 '12 at 3:28
  • 2
    @Ansari - I'm sorry, it seemed to me that ashes999 had said "I will be patrolling and flagging comments like these as off-topic and unconstructive". I must have misread his/her remark if you say that there was no intent to flag such comments. I shall get my eyes tested. – user202 Jul 1 '12 at 6:29
  • 1
    @DavidWallace please do. Comments like "this is only X perspective" are fine. Comments that "Y perspective is invalid because my sect disagrees" are not fine. The latter will be flagged. – ashes999 Jul 1 '12 at 8:25
  • 2
    @Ansari: I don't get you. He's calling leaving comment on a post to remind the answerer that it's specific to a certain sect "trolling". And threatening us that he'll flag them. Don't you get offended by this? Maybe it's different cultures. Perhaps you would ask Ashes99999 what the motivation behind this post was. I recommended someone to add sunni view to their answer very civilly and they started a meta thread to know what others think. What's the point of this meta thread? To warn people that they have no right to comment on answers and it'll be flagged by a user? – Gigili Jul 1 '12 at 9:42
  • 1
    Well, I don't think @DavidWallace must test his/her eyes. It's a waste of money if he does it after every edit you made to your question. – Gigili Jul 1 '12 at 11:33
  • 1
    @Gigili - no, he's only calling a certain way of leaving comments on posts "trolling." Look at his four specific points above. To say it like that is offensive. Instead, you could simply say: "Please make it clear in your answer that this is a Sunni/Shi'a view." His post wasn't about ALL comments – Ansari Jul 1 '12 at 15:49

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .